pic: ChislehurstNews
6.35pm, Monday. Lee High Road. Lewisham: 15 policemen are lined up on the south side of the street dressed in riot gear – full-face helmets, shields and truncheons. A large group of mainly young people are packed on the pavement on the north side, staring and shouting at the police across the road.
Cars, buses and cyclists nervously cut through this tension as they crawl along the busy A20 – one of south London’s busiest arteries.
A teenage girl hysterically shouts at a press photographer, who is by the police line: “Get out of my f***ing face. Don’t you f***ing take my photo you w***er.” Someone from the pavement side throws a full drinks can in the direction of the police, falling short by a few metres.
In this brief, highly-charged, moment there is no looting or violence (although later in the evening cars were torched, buildings vandalised and there were reports of theft). In full view of Lewisham Police Station, this standoff is largely phoney, with many onlookers taking photos on their camera phones to be posted on Facebook later this evening.
But as we sit in Chislehurst or in other parts of the relatively leafy borough of Bromley – where the sound of the wind rushing through the trees replaces police sirens – we should not turn a blind eye.
While many BR7 residents like to kid themselves that they live in Kent, we are very much part of London. Lewisham is our neighbouring borough and its town centre is just six miles away.
This evening’s stand off shows that something is wrong in the capital. We can’t ignore it.
Pic: ChislehurstNews
Pic: ChislehurstNews
i was in lewisham at teatime on the way home tonight passing from the DLR along by the police station and up the high street. It was menacing and so obvious that something was brewing. Police were out in numbers and so were large groups of young males. The only other time i felt like that was when I was in brixton on the night of the riots before they all kicked off. But this time there were signs of planning, groups using blackberries and mobile phones – calculated looks and careful placement of groups of 5 or 6. It felt contrived and inevitable and all in all a very sad indictment of how things are. Bromley is heading the way of Catford and Lewisham, another few years….
How right you are,I am starting to see my area Shortlands going down hill fast,for someone who lived in Peckham in the 60s to 80s I know how fast this change comes very sad .
“While many BR7 residents like to kid themselves that they live Kent, we are very much part of London. Lewisham is our neighbouring borough and its town centre is just six miles away.
This evening’s stand off shows that something is wrong in the capital. We can’t ignore it.”
Well, so far people in Bromley (one of the richest boroughs in the country) have been quite good at ignoring the problems of it neighbours.
We have 36 percent youth unemployment in Lewisham. This is result of the policies pursued by successive governments over the last thirty years that have been destroying jobs in our borough.
The main political parties are corrupt and irrelevant to the needs of ordinary people. In Lewisham we have set up our own party, People Before Profit. We have the policies that will lead us out of this mess.
We need real jobs and we need them now. This will mean some fundamental changes. We cannot afford to continue importing ‘cheap’ goods. We need to produce far more of what we consume. Only by re-establishing British manufacturing industry will we be able to create the millions of jobs that we need.
This will not be easy and sacrifices will have to be made. And this means sacrifices by better-off people in places like Chislehurst in terms of higher taxation and a contraction of financial services as the economy is rebalanced. The alternative is a spiral of social decay.
Perhaps if people want jobs then they shouldn’t be burning down businesses.
Here’s an analogy:
Kids are born innocent, naturally cheerful. Communities are much the same. Treat either too badly, for too long, and they will turn bad
our parents and grandparents grew up during a time of rationing and depression – i didn’t hear about many of them starting riots. I don’t care how bored or unhappy someone is, there is no excuse for burglary, damage, arson and violence.
Bromley ransacked
if this does end up spilling into Chislehurst I at any means possible will protect myself. I was in Lewisham earlier if that happens to Bromley police just like Lewisham are not gonna do shit!
George your message seems to be attempting to justify the criminal actions that these rioters are taking… I live in Chislehurst and I am the same age bracket as a lot of these young people, I too don’t have a job but look at our whole country. We are in a very economically unstable climate but these rioters are not stealing things like food because they are starving, they are stealing high end luxury items that even a Chislehurst dweller like myself doesn’t have the privilege of.
Don’t kid yourself that this is anything to do with politics…thieves and hooligans are recklessly setting fire to people’s homes and cars…would you be so supportive if your home was ash?
Youthin touble: What rubbish. The police are facing a horrendous and unprecedented task of restoring order. It’s all too easy to criticise from behind a laptop or iPhone.
OK, can anyone offer a credible theory as to what triggered the civil unrest beyond the predictable leftish editorial in today’s Guardian and the right wing bile in the Daily Mail? Views please.
You can push people so far and then..
The media bombard us with images of ‘success’ and the amazing pile of goods that go with it. At the same time the way the economy is organised guarantees that most people will ‘fail’ by this media standard.
For young people the above is true in spades.
Almost everything young people do cost. With the advent of the mobile phone and the internet, even keeping in touch with friends depends on access to some expensive equipment. This cash youth economy was well established before the current round of cuts. Now youth services have been slashed and youth clubs closed things are even worse. The only low-cost activity left is watching television.. to be deluged with images of the good life that you can’t afford.
Many young people are studying for qualifications that, in time, will lead to a decent job. However, on current trends, most of them will end up either in low paid work or unemployed. Some console themselves with dreams of becoming famous. Others turn to crime. Crime offers a fast-track to goods and a form of notoriety. Even a criminal record can give status.
What we need is not empty moralistic condemnation but a realistic programme to address the economic and political causes. Lewisham People Before Profit has such a programme.
The starting point is the ending of the political dominance of the banks. We can then get control of the economy and rebuild British manufacturing. Over time this will provide millions of jobs paying decent wages. With millions more tax payers (leading to millions less on benefits) and higher taxes for those on higher incomes we can restore the public finances and deliver the services we all need.
Stephen – I don’t have a credible theory, but I suspect that there is a grain of truth in ALL of the points of view. Personally, I would pin most of the blame on family breakdown (kids not having a decent adult male role model etc). Unfortunately it’s a vicious circle, as the urban regeneration that George would like is now surely even more unlikely – would a business person be likely to invest time and money in Lewisham now, given the clear risks involved? It’s all very sad.
Incidentally, we used to live just off Lee High road, a short walk from street in the images above – but we moved to Chislehurst when we wanted to start a family!
“Unfortunately it’s a vicious circle, as the urban regeneration that George would like is now surely even more unlikely – would a business person be likely to invest time and money in Lewisham now, given the clear risks involved?”
What you say is true: it is a vicious circle and the riots will make business less likely to invest time and money in Lewisham. But only if we leave things as they are.
The point is to change things so that we break out of the downward spiral. This means political intervention to rebuild employment and aid local business.
The existing political parties are incapable of doing this: they in the pay of the financial sector. This literally true: the Conservative Party, for example, get half its funding from banks and hedge funds. Hence the need for new forms of political organisation such as LPBP.
The alternative is what you have been seeing the last few nights – but closer the where you live.
I’m sorry, there is no excuse, none whatsoever. Most people in this country are educated, they know the difference between right and wrong. Where are they getting the money for their blackberry phones,their designer clothes and trainers if they are not working? If they are working then it is theft and anarchy, plain and simple. No excuses. We had nothing when I was a child,1 of 7 children. We didn’t do anything like this, we knew our parents would have killed us. Where are their parents? There were children on the streets last night, some as young as 7. What would they know of government policies. Thugs, every last one of them, no cause to fight for. I can’t understand why people who are genuinely concerned about government policies are making excuses for them. They are not bothered about which party is running the country, it dosen’t matter to them. All they want is to take what they want, when they want it, and sod everybody else.
“All they want is to take what they want, when they want it, and sod everybody else.”
Sound like bankers to me.
In Chislehurst, the police said its likely to happen tonight. They say call 999 if anything happens. Beware.
its happened but is PRIMARK in Bromley burnt down?
Burnt down? No. More like a smashed window. Check out this rather good interactive map of incidents produced by the Guardian for details: http://tinyurl.com/3m97mnv
We were ‘unluckly’ 30 years ago not to be able to afford to live in London. Had to move to Kent and commute to Lewisham where my fathers business was. As I say not through choice. But in time my father wouldn’t move out and I saw the changes coming, so I left him and started on my own.
I now see how lucky I was to leave the place of my birth. The area has decayed over the years and these kids can’t move away to a better life. Nothing solid ever happens to help them or the community. Yes plenty of initiatives and schemes which come to nothing and peter out. Never investment and encouragement for small business who would provide more employment and pride.
The only time politicians are interested in the area is to further their careers. Where are they now they’ve moved on to higher things?
This is probably just a rambling but it hurts me to see this news of an area I loved and miss. And what we as humans are doing to eachother.
Sorry George but the attitude that everything costs for kids is nonsense. Things only cost if you want them to. When I was a kid in the mid 80s to the early 90s we had a very high consumer community, yuppies etc, yet myself and my friends played football every night after school, we would make arrangements during school and then meet at the most local park/pitch (if we were lucky) if not jumpers for goalposts a football for a couple of £s and we were off. We didn’t have access to computers etc, lets remember that once there is a PC in a home emails are pretty much free. As a child I would have limited access to the home phone for a quick chat with friends if it was necessary, the difference is kids today have been fooled into believing that the world owes them something I have seen kids who have well off parents and at the age of 4 they are running rings around their parents “i want this, that etc” as a child i was taught to be seen and not heard. there is simply a lack of discipline in young people today and that lays at the feet of the parents either due to not spending time with there kids or simply not teaching them right from wrong, The only positive from these riots is that a large degree of anyone who fought in wars for this country for liberty and freedom are no longer with us, if they could see what the youth of today have done with that freedom and liberty then it would kill them in a much worse way than a Nazi bullet. As still a relatively young man I am saddened and depressed and simply don’t know where we go from here should we make excuses for these thugs and criminals and change everything to make life easier for them is that not tantamount to allowing terrorists to dictate how we live.
Stephen
Some of what you say is true, but I’m afraid I will have to contradict you. I did not say that “everything costs for kids”.
What I actually said was “Almost everything young people do cost[s]”.
Yes, of course it is still possible to play football in the park with a couple of jumpers for goalposts. But what about following football?
There was a time when going to a football match was a cheap form of entertainment: that is no longer the case, if you support a premier league club. Even watching premier league matches now requires a subscription to Sky.
Part of the problem is the enormous growth in inequality. From memory, young people are extremely sensitive about their identify and which group they are in. Some of the marks of identity, such as the way you speak, are free. However, lots of other things, such as your clothes and what you do on holiday, are not. When I was a lad ‘trainers’ hadn’t been invented so footwear was largely an issue of whether your plimsolls (always referred to as ‘pumps’) were black or white. Since differences in family incomes were far smaller very few people were going feel excluded.
You said “the difference is kids today have been fooled into believing that the world owes them something”. Yes, there is some truth in this, but who taught them this?
When I was growing up advertising was limited to billboards, the newspapers and the cinema . There was no ‘junk mail’. Today advertising is a multi-billion pound industry and a good part of what it does is aimed at children. Supermarket managers are trained to position goods to maximise the effect of ‘pester power’.
Finally, nothing I wrote was an excuse for thugs and criminals. Generally the riots have been a disaster for inner-city areas. Fortunately Lewisham got off lightly the other night but we might not be so lucky another time. This is a serious problem for me and I want to find a solution. This means understanding the dynamics. Moralistic posturing of the sort we are getting from the main parties is no use. We need cool, clear, scientific analysis of the situation: ranting and raving will get us nowhere.
Thank you ChislehurstNews for your excellent reports and responses over the last day or so.
Today I could not help noticing how the responses as to why this has all happened was put down to ‘nothing for the young people to do’. Whilst I understand, being the holidays, there may be more free time I felt very proud to be supporting a local project that IS addressing this very need. In Chislehurst, I believe we need to be backing existing charities such as that of ‘Chislehurst Youth for Christ’ who have been mentoring and supporting young people locally for at least 7 years. Particularly during the holidays our youth team have gone out their way to provide activities 5 days a week to those on the Edgebury Estate aged 8-18, about 70 in all. It may be a small start but with the charity expanding its work into wider parts of Chislehurst this year we should be chuffed that something proactive is already happening on our very doorstep. It is here that our team get along side and provide a place where young people feel welcome. At the 2gether charity shop in Chislehurst all the profits go towards this valuable work and I for one, am very excited to be part of it. http://www.2gethershop.org.uk/youthnews
Sorry, please change last link to http://www.2gethershop.org.uk/youthnews.html as I forgot last section of address. Thank you
Clare – inspiring stuff. I don’t want to jinx Chislehurst by saying this, but perhaps the work of the youth charity is one reason why the looting and unrest hasn’t spread to the town.
Ed, I dont know but a local resident spoke to me today and said it has been reaassuring to hear the usual noise around the club of kids playing ‘penny up the wall’. They have something to do every day. Lets hope Chislehurst remains a safe place over the coming days.